Conformance: a bottom-up approach
Lassi Kortela
(14 May 2024 15:13 UTC)
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Re: Conformance: a bottom-up approach
Antero Mejr
(14 May 2024 19:26 UTC)
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Organization and tooling, etc.
Lassi Kortela
(14 May 2024 19:43 UTC)
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Other Scheme domains
Lassi Kortela
(14 May 2024 19:58 UTC)
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Re: Other Scheme domains
Antero Mejr
(14 May 2024 21:47 UTC)
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Re: Other Scheme domains
Andrew Whatson
(15 May 2024 01:27 UTC)
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PreScheme and scsh sites
Lassi Kortela
(15 May 2024 11:23 UTC)
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Re: PreScheme and scsh sites Andrew Whatson (15 May 2024 15:20 UTC)
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Re: PreScheme and scsh sites
Lassi Kortela
(15 May 2024 17:02 UTC)
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> Thanks for getting in touch. Good work! Information on PreScheme has > been hard to come by. Thanks, I'm glad it's useful. > I made a bare-bones page at https://groups.scheme.org/prescheme/ earlier > but your site is much better. I'll delete that page if you add all the > info to your site. It seems the main things missing are the SPS implementation and the MITRE/VLISP papers, happy to add those to the site, I'll do that soon. > Regarding the domains, I'd like to make https://pre.scheme.org/ redirect > to https://prescheme.org/, but we have certain customs about ownership. > > To illustrate: Gerbil Scheme is owned by Dimitris Vyzovitis so he has > full control over https://gerbil.scheme.org/. But things that have no > clear owner have consensus-driven sites. For example, none of us own the > Scheme standards so https://standards.scheme.org/ is collectively owned. > People who want to add stuff about some aspect of the standards there > can add it. > > It's my impression that PreScheme has no owner. If this is the case and > the site is presented under the scheme.org umbrella, it would have to > operate under similar principles: It should be a relatively neutral > presentation of all aspects of PreScheme. > > For comparison, standards.scheme.org does not take sides in the R6RS and > R7RS debate and simply presents both standards in a neutral (or mildly > positive) light. A PreScheme site connected to Scheme.org should present > all the (current and historical) PreScheme implementations and working > groups in the same spirit, giving each group its own sub-site where they > can promote their vision but not favoring any group on the main site. > > Despite the community-owned nature of most of Scheme.org, the > development of most sections is in fact led by one or two people. For > example, https://index.scheme.org/ is community-owned but Arvydas has > done almost everything and it would be rude for the rest of us to > override him. > > This dynamic emerges naturally, and you would have the moral right to > lead the work on the PreScheme site. But in the case of disputes, > especially about favoritism, the principle behind the community sections > of Scheme.org is that consensus wins over the vision of a particular > group, and when there is no consensus, neutrality wins. > > As for hosting, your current server is fine. > > If this seems too bureaucratic or uncertain for your goals, I > understand. Scheme.org is geared toward achieving stability and trust in > 10-20 years so our approach seems heavy-handed to many people now. I understand and agree in principle. In the case of Pre-Scheme (as with Scheme), there's a long history and academic legacy which is important to preserve accurately and respectfully, and that's been my intent from the beginning. As for the future, I've secured a grant from NLnet to work on "resurrecting" the Pre-Scheme compiler, porting it from Scheme 48 to R7RS and extending/revising the language with the objective of realizing its potential as a modern low-level functional/systems language. This will result in a good deal of new documentation focused specifically on the port, with a re-organization of the landing page to highlight progress updates and funnel newcomers towards a "getting started" guide. This would demote the historical information to a smaller call-out, moving the bulk of that content to a separate page. My concern is how best to balance the requirements of promoting my work under the grant, while also presenting a neutral view of other implementations which are currently all historical. If this change in focus would come across as unfairly biased, it might be better to keep a separate page on scheme.org. I'd be happy to move the historical information to that page and link to it as the authoritative source for Pre-Scheme as a whole. >> Thanks for your efforts in bringing the communities together! > > Thank you for doing the same around the Scheme48 legacy. > > I noticed that you set up https://gitea.scheme.org/scsh-conservatory as > well. If you have any ideas for how to present it under the scheme.org > website, let us know. I didn't yet add anything about scsh under > https://conservatory.scheme.org/ because I couldn't immediately think of > a good layout. It's better if you decide how to do it. It would make sense to have an SCSH page with an overview of its history and a list of references/projects as we've done for Pre-Scheme. There are some really cool projects in that collection, particularly SUnet, Commander S, and the CSAN.