Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(18 Oct 2019 15:25 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(18 Oct 2019 20:48 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced Lassi Kortela (18 Oct 2019 22:24 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(19 Oct 2019 08:26 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(19 Oct 2019 19:04 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(20 Oct 2019 09:15 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(21 Oct 2019 17:26 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 18:38 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(21 Oct 2019 19:27 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(22 Oct 2019 06:04 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(22 Oct 2019 10:07 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(22 Oct 2019 19:33 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(22 Oct 2019 19:39 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(22 Oct 2019 20:06 UTC)
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Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
Lassi Kortela
(22 Oct 2019 20:30 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
John Cowan
(22 Oct 2019 20:54 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
Lassi Kortela
(22 Oct 2019 21:08 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
Shiro Kawai
(22 Oct 2019 22:24 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
Lassi Kortela
(23 Oct 2019 07:40 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
John Cowan
(22 Oct 2019 23:12 UTC)
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Re: Syntactic keywords vs parentheses
Amirouche Boubekki
(25 Oct 2019 11:56 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(23 Oct 2019 07:19 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(21 Oct 2019 23:06 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(22 Oct 2019 00:42 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(22 Oct 2019 06:12 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(22 Oct 2019 10:56 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(20 Oct 2019 09:42 UTC)
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Remaining keyword problems
Lassi Kortela
(29 Oct 2019 17:59 UTC)
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allow-other-keys
Lassi Kortela
(29 Oct 2019 18:29 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
John Cowan
(29 Oct 2019 18:55 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Shiro Kawai
(29 Oct 2019 19:18 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Lassi Kortela
(29 Oct 2019 23:04 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Feeley
(29 Oct 2019 21:05 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(03 Nov 2019 08:16 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Lassi Kortela
(03 Nov 2019 10:11 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(03 Nov 2019 10:34 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Lassi Kortela
(03 Nov 2019 10:54 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(03 Nov 2019 11:13 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Lassi Kortela
(03 Nov 2019 11:39 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Arthur A. Gleckler
(03 Nov 2019 18:39 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(03 Nov 2019 18:48 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
John Cowan
(03 Nov 2019 19:20 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
John Cowan
(03 Nov 2019 19:18 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(03 Nov 2019 19:52 UTC)
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Re: allow-other-keys
John Cowan
(03 Nov 2019 22:19 UTC)
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Identifier syntax and the range of Schemes to support
Lassi Kortela
(03 Nov 2019 19:54 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
John Cowan
(29 Oct 2019 19:51 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
Lassi Kortela
(29 Oct 2019 21:09 UTC)
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Alternative syntax using colon symbols for portable keywords
Lassi Kortela
(29 Oct 2019 22:29 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(11 Nov 2019 14:56 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
Lassi Kortela
(11 Nov 2019 16:15 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(11 Nov 2019 14:44 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
John Cowan
(11 Nov 2019 16:48 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(11 Nov 2019 17:06 UTC)
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Re: Remaining keyword problems
John Cowan
(11 Nov 2019 17:15 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(19 Oct 2019 09:25 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(19 Oct 2019 09:38 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(19 Oct 2019 12:22 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(19 Oct 2019 18:43 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(20 Oct 2019 08:39 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(20 Oct 2019 09:28 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 10:12 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 10:17 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(20 Oct 2019 10:23 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 10:42 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(20 Oct 2019 21:10 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 21:19 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(20 Oct 2019 21:33 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 22:05 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 07:01 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 22:18 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 07:06 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(21 Oct 2019 07:25 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(20 Oct 2019 21:04 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(20 Oct 2019 21:41 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 06:50 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(21 Oct 2019 07:53 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 11:47 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Peter Kourzanov
(21 Oct 2019 15:42 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 15:55 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Shiro Kawai
(21 Oct 2019 17:38 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
John Cowan
(21 Oct 2019 17:45 UTC)
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Re: Keywords reduced
Lassi Kortela
(22 Oct 2019 08:21 UTC)
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Keywords vs paremeters for hygiene
Lassi Kortela
(21 Oct 2019 08:05 UTC)
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Re: Keywords vs paremeters for hygiene
Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen
(21 Oct 2019 11:23 UTC)
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> What implementations did you measure this on? Chez is a very different > matter from Chibi. Only on Chez. On Chibi the slowdown is about 10x, except the 1-arg case about 30x (it probably optimizes 1-arg calls to ordinary procedures). The benchmark runs 100K calls. Wouldn't you switch to a faster implementation for jobs like that? >> Calling with one or two keywords is 2-10x >> slower, but you have to do like 100K calls per second for it to matter. > > What concerns me is if you have 100 keyword args of which only a few are > usually supplied at any given time, but then someone comes along and > supplies all or most of them. Someone comes along and supplies close to 100 keyword arguments in one call? Benchmark says calling with 100 kw args 100 times takes 1 second for Chibi. Chez does it in 0.25 seconds. Both with naive plists. In real code, more than 10 arguments is getting into <https://thedailywtf.com/> territory. This is starting to look like intentionally designing the worst possible way to attack a problem, then iteratively making it worse. We're not yet at remote procedure calls :) To me, Lisp keyword args have always had a bit of that "ordering fast food at 2 AM" vibe. A bit dodgy and you know it, but sometimes the most expedient option. That's why these attempts to turn it into fine art are still a bit mystifying to me, though there may be a point to it, just like there are Michelin-starred restaurants that serve burgers. > You pointed out in another email that keyword-call is rather long-winded, > and I agree. How about changing it to something compact like just a > colon? I think this is a clear-cut case where such a short identifier is > justified. You will have to make sure that systems accept it as a normal > identifier and not a malformed keyword. I haven't checked whether or not a single colon is portable. I'd err on the side of caution since compatibility with any Scheme is so important. As a separate concern, recall that we need the keyword args in a separate sublist as in (keyword-call a b (c d)). This is due to limitations in syntax-rules pattern matching, and also finding some other "keyword arguments start here" marker would be hard since we don't have portable keyword read syntax. (keyword-call a b (c d)) is already about the maximum amount of weirdness I'd be comfortable imposing on library programmers who are just wanting to get a job done and get on with other problems. (: a b (c d)) is quite a bit of magic in one expression. I guess it could be (: a b : c d) but that's also quite magic, and can syntax-rules handle it? A simple alternative would be changing the names to kw-lambda and kw-call. Or klambda and kcall (maybe "k" is too brief?)