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(Previous discussion continued)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 15:55 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 15:59 UTC)
open-file and fd->*port Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 16:05 UTC)
Re: open-file and fd->*port Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 16:15 UTC)
Re: open-file and fd->*port Shiro Kawai (10 Sep 2020 17:33 UTC)
Re: open-file and fd->*port Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 17:40 UTC)
Re: open-file and fd->*port John Cowan (10 Sep 2020 18:18 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 16:29 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (10 Sep 2020 16:33 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 16:42 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 16:57 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 17:08 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 17:21 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 17:34 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (10 Sep 2020 17:37 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 17:36 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 17:50 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? John Cowan (10 Sep 2020 18:10 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 18:40 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen (10 Sep 2020 18:48 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? John Cowan (10 Sep 2020 18:52 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 19:01 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 19:12 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (10 Sep 2020 19:07 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Lassi Kortela (10 Sep 2020 19:16 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 19:23 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (10 Sep 2020 19:28 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Shiro Kawai (10 Sep 2020 19:57 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (10 Sep 2020 20:02 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Shiro Kawai (10 Sep 2020 20:13 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? John Cowan (10 Sep 2020 20:19 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (10 Sep 2020 20:49 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 13:19 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 14:03 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 14:56 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 15:31 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? John Cowan (10 Sep 2020 20:18 UTC)
Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 13:49 UTC)
R7RS scope & yearly editions Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 14:10 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 14:22 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 14:26 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 14:30 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 14:47 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions & language interop Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 15:20 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions & language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 15:28 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions & language interop John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 17:11 UTC)
Language interop Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 17:55 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 18:04 UTC)
Re: Language interop Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 18:14 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 18:28 UTC)
Re: Language interop hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 18:50 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 20:28 UTC)
Re: Language interop hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 21:00 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (12 Sep 2020 07:26 UTC)
Re: Language interop Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 19:17 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 20:38 UTC)
Re: Language interop John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 20:50 UTC)
Re: Language interop hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 18:30 UTC)
Re: Language interop John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 19:45 UTC)
Re: Language interop Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 20:15 UTC)
Re: Language interop John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 19:42 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions hga@xxxxxx (11 Sep 2020 15:34 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 15:56 UTC)
Interlisp and structural code editing Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 17:45 UTC)
Re: Interlisp and structural code editing John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 20:16 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 16:57 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 17:23 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 20:31 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Arthur A. Gleckler (12 Sep 2020 17:39 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions John Cowan (11 Sep 2020 16:39 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Marc Nieper-Wißkirchen (11 Sep 2020 17:01 UTC)
Re: R7RS scope & yearly editions Lassi Kortela (11 Sep 2020 17:15 UTC)

Re: Remove file descriptors completely from srfi-170? Duy Nguyen 10 Sep 2020 17:50 UTC

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 12:36 AM <xxxxxx@ancell-ent.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Duy Nguyen <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 11:42 AM
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:29 PM <xxxxxx@ancell-ent.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: Duy Nguyen <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
> >>> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2020 10:48 AM
> >>>
> >>> Besides the procedures to "create" and close file descriptors, they
> >>> are only needed to make a port. Why not combine open-file and
> >>> fd->*port in one? All other procedures either take pathname or a port.
> >>
> >> Because we want to allow users to be able to write C code to do other
> >> things to file descriptors we haven't anticipated?  Of course, per
> >> the below I should come up with some concrete examples, but that's
> >> already happened with the change to terminal? you inspired.
> >
> > If you can write C code, you can already call open() or close()
> > yourself.
>
> Indeed, but you need something somewhere so that you can eventually
> turn it into a port.  Like the posited new SRFI.

See my "Scheme X" reply to Lassi. Yes we new SRFI, no we don't
necessarily need to turn an fd to a port.

> > This is what I meant by FFI in response to Lassi. This is a portable
> > SRFI, why do we cater to FFI which is very likely implementation
> > specific and has to deal with implementation quirks anyway?
>
> A compelling argument.  With the exception of file-info, and
> set-file-mode, umask, and set-umask! which all take a magic integers
> (which I bet a lot of us have wired into our minds) there's nothing
> that gets you into the guts of POSIX except for these fd procedures.

That's more POSIX than Scheme implementations. The only good thing is
those magic numbers do not come with the resource management
complication caused by fd<->port relationship.

> As mentioned above, keep the now fully admitted hack of
> port-terminal-fd in SRFI 170, because it's easy/trivial, is
> needed by 170 and we don't want to indefinitely further delay
> 170's finalization.

Easy and trivial does not make a good design. Removal would not
definitely delay finalization.

It's my bed time now perhaps I'm skimming your mail too fast (in that
case I apology and will read more carefully tomorrow) but why are fds
still needed by 170? terminal? is moved out. IF fd->*port are combined
with open-file then there's no where else fd is used. Or I'm reading
the wrong version.
--
Duy