Email list hosting service & mailing list manager

strings draft Tom Lord (22 Jan 2004 05:11 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (22 Jan 2004 09:46 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (22 Jan 2004 17:45 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (23 Jan 2004 05:03 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 00:45 UTC)
Re: strings draft Matthew Dempsky (23 Jan 2004 20:01 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (24 Jan 2004 03:26 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 04:31 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (24 Jan 2004 04:49 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 19:01 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (24 Jan 2004 22:15 UTC)
Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) Shiro Kawai (26 Jan 2004 09:58 UTC)
Strings, one last detail. bear (30 Jan 2004 21:12 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. Shiro Kawai (30 Jan 2004 21:43 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. Tom Lord (31 Jan 2004 00:27 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. bear (31 Jan 2004 20:25 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. Tom Lord (31 Jan 2004 20:56 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. bear (01 Feb 2004 02:28 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. Tom Lord (01 Feb 2004 02:58 UTC)
Re: Strings, one last detail. bear (01 Feb 2004 07:53 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) bear (26 Jan 2004 19:04 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) Matthew Dempsky (26 Jan 2004 13:13 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) Matthew Dempsky (26 Jan 2004 13:41 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char Shiro Kawai (26 Jan 2004 23:38 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) Ken Dickey (26 Jan 2004 19:40 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char Shiro Kawai (27 Jan 2004 05:10 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char Tom Lord (27 Jan 2004 05:37 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char bear (27 Jan 2004 08:35 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) bear (27 Jan 2004 08:32 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) Ken Dickey (27 Jan 2004 06:50 UTC)
Re: Octet vs Char (Re: strings draft) bear (27 Jan 2004 19:06 UTC)
Re: strings draft bear (22 Jan 2004 19:05 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 02:06 UTC)
READ-OCTET (Re: strings draft) Shiro Kawai (23 Jan 2004 06:00 UTC)
Re: strings draft bear (23 Jan 2004 07:04 UTC)
Re: strings draft bear (23 Jan 2004 07:20 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 00:15 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (26 Jan 2004 01:58 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (26 Jan 2004 02:35 UTC)
Re: strings draft bear (26 Jan 2004 02:35 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (26 Jan 2004 03:01 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (26 Jan 2004 03:00 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (26 Jan 2004 03:27 UTC)
Re: strings draft Shiro Kawai (26 Jan 2004 04:57 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (26 Jan 2004 04:57 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 18:48 UTC)
Re: strings draft bear (24 Jan 2004 02:21 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 02:09 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 02:42 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 02:44 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 03:07 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 03:04 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 03:29 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 03:42 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (23 Jan 2004 02:34 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 02:42 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 03:02 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (23 Jan 2004 02:58 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 03:13 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (23 Jan 2004 03:18 UTC)
Re: strings draft Bradd W. Szonye (23 Jan 2004 19:31 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (26 Jan 2004 02:21 UTC)
Re: strings draft Bradd W. Szonye (06 Feb 2004 23:30 UTC)
Re: strings draft Bradd W. Szonye (06 Feb 2004 23:33 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (09 Feb 2004 01:45 UTC)
specifying source encoding (Re: strings draft) Shiro Kawai (09 Feb 2004 02:51 UTC)
Re: strings draft Bradd W. Szonye (09 Feb 2004 03:39 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 03:12 UTC)
Re: strings draft Alex Shinn (23 Jan 2004 03:28 UTC)
Re: strings draft tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 03:44 UTC)
Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Ken Dickey (23 Jan 2004 08:07 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] bear (23 Jan 2004 17:55 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 18:50 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Per Bothner (23 Jan 2004 18:56 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 20:39 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Per Bothner (23 Jan 2004 20:57 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 21:57 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 20:20 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] tb@xxxxxx (23 Jan 2004 21:22 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 22:52 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] tb@xxxxxx (24 Jan 2004 06:48 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 18:55 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] tb@xxxxxx (24 Jan 2004 19:34 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (24 Jan 2004 22:02 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Ken Dickey (23 Jan 2004 12:53 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (23 Jan 2004 23:35 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Ken Dickey (24 Jan 2004 16:10 UTC)
Re: Parsing Scheme [was Re: strings draft] Tom Lord (25 Jan 2004 03:14 UTC)
Re: strings draft Matthew Dempsky (25 Jan 2004 00:00 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (25 Jan 2004 07:29 UTC)
Re: strings draft Matthew Dempsky (26 Jan 2004 16:53 UTC)
Re: strings draft Tom Lord (27 Jan 2004 00:44 UTC)

Re: strings draft Tom Lord 26 Jan 2004 02:35 UTC


    > From: Alex Shinn <xxxxxx@synthcode.com>

    > >     > ???  Balanced trees are still trees, and if the tree is exp(n) long
    > >     > there are still O(n) links to follow from the root to a leaf.  Can
    > >     > you explain what you mean?

    > > I mean that you should (maybe, don't know enough about your apps and
    > > environment) use splay trees so that string algorithms displaying a
    > > reasonable degree of locality will be able to locate indexes in
    > > expected-case O(1).

    > OK, in my reply on c.l.s. I had incorrectly assumed you meant keeping
    > some sort of reference to that last index in the tree, I should have
    > asked for clarification.

    > However, in either case you still have two problems:

    >   1) Both are very different from unconditional O(1) access.

The language I recommend for R6RS says "expected case O(1)", not
unconditional.

It's not a requirement, just guidance -- so it doesn't prevent any
implementation from conforming.

It's the vague "expected case" -- so there's pretty wide liberty for
claiming you followed the guidance.

One kind of implementation it specifically discourages:
implementations that use nothing but (simplistically coded) UTF-8
internally and expect to be used for string-intensive processing on
anything other than short strings.

Another kind of implementation it specifically discourages is the same
as that but s/UTF-8/a shift encoding/.

If you want to use UTF-8 or a shift encoding or, really, any variable
length encoding internally: the guidance is just to encourage you to
either say "this implementation isn't expected to be winning for
string-intensive programs" or represent your strings cleverly to
overcome the shortcomings of those encodings.

    >   2) Both effectively prevent shared strings as subtrees.

I'm aware of two kinds of shared substring you might want.

One is a "copy-on-write" shared substring -- the kind of substring
that SUBSTRING could return.  I'm not sure what generalizations of
this can be formed, but you could certainly represent COW-shared
substrings as subtrees in splay-tree implementations.   I've done so
in the past.

The other kind of shared substring would be a "mutation sharing"
shared substring.  True: I don't see any natural "substring ==
subtree" implementation for those using splay-tree strings.  That
doesn't mean, though, that I don't think they can be implemented
reasonably -- just not by that technique.

    > > Of course if memory constraints and usage guarantee that your
    > > particular non-splay trees or guaranteed to be shallow -- that's just
    > > as good.

    > Probably not good enough if you want to work with strings the size Bear
    > is talking about.

Bear seems to be just throwing huge amounts of memory at the problem.
My impression is that the leaves of his tree are generally big -- the
trees, therefore, shallow.

    > The problem with recommending O(1) on STRING-REF/SET! is that it
    > encourages programming style that cannot be optimized in some string
    > implementations.  However, by the simple suggestion of Shiro's where you
    > use a string-pointer object you can achieve O(1) where you need it.

I don't actually believe that.   If you want to chat about why, we
could take it to xxxxxx@nongnu.org or offlist.

-t